Scenario: A huge volcano has erupted and lava is fast approaching. You see a hill you can run to and run up away from the lava. But you also see that the lava will quickly overflow the top of the hill. The last rescue helicopter has already left totally full of passengers. From radio communications you know that no one else is left to rescue you. Logically you know that you're going to die.

Do you bother to run up the hill away from the lava? Or since you see that the action is futile and will only prolong your life a minute or two, do you just stand there and let the lava kill you now?

Of course you take off up the hill. And it turns out the going is quite tough. It's muddy. You keep sliding and falling. You're getting out of breath. The going is really quite tough indeed. By the way, why exactly are you going up this hill anyway?

You realize you're hoping that another helicopter will appear and rescue you. In fact, running up this hill is so tough and you've wanted to stop so many times, that in order to continue running you've gone beyond hoping and into believing in the existence of this helicopter.

Whoa! That's illogical! That's ridiculous crap worthy only of derision.

So... how is running up the hill in the first place not illogical?

Such is life. This is the predicament we're all in. There is no logical action to be taken. The fact that we're going up that hill at all is illogical. It is the belief that the helicopter is coming. It is a futile action much like all of life which just has nonexistence waiting at the finish life. And if you do anything other than just stand there, no matter what you say, by what you do, you are showing quite clearly that you believe in the existence of that helicopter.

And so atheism is a contradiction.

It's maybe a very small point. And contradictory atheism certainly appears better than organized religion. Certainly the belief in the helicopter doesn't mean you have to be against evolution, intolerant of homosexuals, etc. And you certainly don't have to run up that hill chanting praises to the great helicopter god and persecuting anyone else running along whom you notice isn't singing.

But this contradiction of atheism. The problem is that in the attempt to know one's self. In the attempt to understand our own subconscious and unconscious, pretending that there is no contradiction in atheism really makes such knowledge impossible. It keeps us instead just floating on the top of our minds, ignoring what is in the depths.

Because so much of what actually makes us happy from day to day is tied into subconscious symbolizations which aren't logical.

But what would happen if these things are uncovered?

Would that not just destroy them?

Is it perhaps better to pretend they're not there in order to keep them there than it is to instead see them, and see how illogical they are and thus destroy them?

Maybe. Perhaps it's more that I just wish my fellow atheists would at least give a bit of respect to the nihilism which is inherent in atheism instead of pretending it's not there....

Why do they pretend it's not there?

I think because they feel locked in a battle with an adversary. Admitting the nihilism would be giving a point, a very big point, to the competition. And, unfortunately the competition, in attempting to combat nihilism is also doing incredible harm. They are against science. Which is a horrifying thing.

Is it actually possible to stand on the fence between the two?

The one trying to combat nihilism but turning earth into a dystopia along the way. The other simply turning a blind eye to their own subconscious, in other words kind of not truly being scientific. The one wants to believe a fantasy. The other wants to ignore crucial data...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_psychology

The psyche spontaneously generates mythico-religious symbolism and is therefore spiritual as well as instinctive in nature. An implication of this is that the choice of whether to be a spiritual person or not does not exist—the only question is exactly where we put our spirituality: do we live it consciously or unknowingly invest it in nonspiritual aspirations.

Hah! I ...sort of have been reinventing an argument against atheism. (Although that's not really how I would put it. Not so much 'invest it in nonspiritual aspirations,' as stay sane basically through the spirtuality in us we're unaware of, but whatever.)

So here's the thing: some people would read this and realize they weren't the first person to think of this and think, "Darn!"

But I read it and it's such a relief. It does not remotely make me feel good to think I'm that alone, that no one else ever thought such a thing. (Although I think I knew that other people had thought the same, just hadn't yet seen it described so similarly to what I've thought) And also I don't look at life as much of a competition. My moments of being proud that I'm so 'special' are extremely few and far between. Always instead focusing on problems. Not nice hard science ones unfortunately. Much uglier ones. Ones involving violent little monkeys (people).

It can take days to retrieve a lost thought or months or of course it can just be permanently lost and memory is a hell of a thing. I had an analogy to death about winning an all expenses paid vacation to wherever you liked with one catch: you'd have no recollection at all of the vacation as soon as it was over. Would you go? If you say no, are you really an atheist? (Of course then people just lie and so on and I don't bother ever actually asking anyone the question.) To know that you are going to forget everything you ever do or think makes bothering to do anything utterly futile and thus one must not really be an atheist.

But actually we're all constantly forgetting so much. We don't have to wait to die for that. A person could really sit down and think this through and be horrified. Right now, what you're doing: it's partially futile as you're almost certain to utterly forget this moment and this day. (Still, surviving it isn't futile.)

It's a sort of death then happening to you daily? Yes? Yes? No.

You could get video cameras and put them everywhere and record every second of your existence. Or we could develop perfect memory. And then what? All those memories are no good unless you're remembering them. But the longer you live, the more and more memories till you just sit around remembering, all the time; no longer actually living; just reliving.

So what could you do to make absolutely sure you remember this moment forever? You could do something incredible stupid and destructive. Or write an extremely detailed blog post. Or face that day after day the details just aren't important. It's the overall flavor I guess that's at least hopefully worth remembering.

...and when we remember we actually don't retrieve, we recreate the memory. I have a habit of wondering, "What if actually I did it slightly different in some very bad way?" Then, I recreate the memory in that negative way and wonder which was the way it actually happened. It's a way to put yourself constantly on trial; to persecute yourself, like K.

While you're at it, you can imagine future encounters but with negative what ifs. What if someone with power over you decides to destroy your life? Or just do this or that negative thing to you? What will you do?

Did you act corretly here? And here? What will you do if such and such happens. Etc.

You can wear yourself out. But to some extent you have to do the above. Because you have to be prepared and most of us really are on the chopping block at any given moment.

I'm almost completely unstressed at the moment. Tuesday I'll do badly on the test I didn't study for and then get a bit stressed, more or less till May/June, when hopefully I'll get a job in my new career, etc. During that time the stress will probably do bad things to me. In finding ways to counterbalance I'll probably act in ways that seem stupid here and there. I suppose because on top of it I refuse to think this the best of all possible worlds. Instead I then do the opposite and search and search for the essence of what's wrong with this one.

But there is again a contradiction and it's a part of the same contradiction. Not concealing certain things can hurt creativity. And I like creativity/art... Such things I think are essential. Much like ultimately believing in infinite existence is essential. That also is basically believing a lie.

So again, there is the search for truth and being perfectly logically, being honest with others in practicing the golden rule; such things as I want, contradicted by the understanding it is essential to not be totally logically as we can't actually truly handle absolute truth and thus we must believe the lies within creativity/art and thus sometimes concealing the truth is for the best.

So again, this is a contradiction I haven't found a way to unravel. And so I appear a hypocrite and I contradict myself.

The lie of ethics

When typical atheists try to logically explain moral actions in practice all they're talking of really is self interest. Ask them about the ethicality of veganism and it turns out that morality is really just a nice word for self interst.

When you ask a christian about how one determines if an action is moral, it's just a matter of doing as one is told (along with interpreting what one has been told...)

It is a lie for such atheists to use words like ethics and morality. The christian can at least use such words, although they can't back it up with a very good reason why.

It looks like that old ugly idea that atheists are evil, which isn't actually the case at all. Because actually they do moral actions (not in their self interest) all the time. Because actually they don't truly act like atheists. In fact it's not actually possible to live like an atheist.

In fact they are more moral generally than christians as they are open more to the questioning of ugly traditions generally. And whether or not they are vegan they do act in ways that are outside of their self interest... occasionally. But whenever they do so they are going outside of atheism. They are not living as an atheist. But then when they get out of bed in the morning they've already ruined that.

...but that wasn't the point. The point was the lie. Christian ethics can't be taken very seriously. That leaves these attempts at logic which reduce to self interest yet are called ethics. It is a lie upon which our society sort of wobbles... Wobbles as although that's about the best people can manage to express/argue about, there is something very real other than that which is going on, which is making us act in ways that cannot be brought back to self interest or "god said so".

But it is such a hazy, fuzy, haphazard thing which is going on; a thing that these people can't express, s that of course we mostly do just act in our own self interest. A very short term self interest.

I do believe in evolution.

I think our ancestors were single celled organisms with no ability to "think"; that certain mutations improved their ability to spread their genes.

That ultimately we exist, we are alive; solely to try to keep staying alive. This "thinking" thing we developed has... sometimes really increased our ability to spread our genes. But there are many other beneficial mutations that are highly illogical.

So much of what we do is ultimately pointless and bizarre. It's... stuff related to what was generally beneficial mutations that doesn't necessarily make any sense in this very different world today.

I ruthlessly pull back the curtain; strip everything bare and scream at the result. (And one of these days I'll check the proper use of a semicolon...)

At the same time I've recognized that atheism is wrong in that it's not thinking towards the future, it's not practicing enough forethought. With such forethought there is no reason to get out of bed in the face of the final total memory swipe. So I want "magic". I want "gods".

It's a huge contradiction. I'm pulling back all the curtains while wanting magic so bad; trying to create magic.

Something needs to be done about this contradiction. It's not possible for me to stop pulling back the curtain. I can't stand that which is unknown. Yet I desperately need that which is unknown because only the unknowable is magical/godlike/something other than ceasing to exist.

And everyday is like an entire life. Waking up and trying to quickly retrace the patterns in my mind; the important patterns; why am I doing such and such again...? Some days my mind just is too tired. Some days I fail. Some days by 4pm I'm ready to punch whoever so hard I'll decapitate them.
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Another pulling curtain example from long past very quickly and partially slapped down:

The heart of sex is just some bizarre illogical thing going back to single celled organisms. We can greatly heighten the enjoyment of it at least mostly by adding really ugly things on top. Suggestions of power, etc.

Like I talk really intelligently while caressing some lady's breast and she just about goes bananas. Ugh. She thinks I sound intelligent and that suggests power and that adds so much. It's reproduction plus latching on to someone who will even better ensure her genes will be passed on. Thus totally biologically, the beneficial mutations kick in. Etc. Ugh. Could go on and on. Can't stand to.
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Too intelligent. Devolution. That beneficial mutation called thinking went too far and quit being beneficial.

Eckhart Tolle

The greatest achievement of humanity is not its works of art, science or technology, but the recognition of its own dysfunction, its own madness. -Eckhart Tolle

I don't agree with Tolle's main idea which seems to be a repackaging of the old eastern idea of meditating about nothing thus losing sense of self. I'm really against not thinking. Don't think it's quite so easy to turn it off and on in a useful way. I could be wrong though.

I do agree with this Tolle quote though. It is the moral thing to do. (To recognize, to really get to the heart of this dysfunction.) Without Tolle's main idea though, it's maybe kind of dangerous (selfishly speaking). It means seeing this world as a hell. And probably being very alone in doing so. (And I say that from the POV of looking at socialism, veganism, atheism/deism as just baby steps.)

And if a panglossist is wrong to be a panglossist, then what of the opposite? Someone purposely looking so hard for things to be critical of?

The pangloss is causing harm, usually. The opposite is surely one hell of a wet blanket. Some balance again. Coming back yet again to the fake smile versus truthseeking.

Crying and Religion

Milan Kundera (eventually I want to note about 50 things he pointed out) pointed out a character trait of dividing oneself in to two pieces where there is the person and then a part of the person off to the side just observing. I do that to extreme.

To the point that once long ago I was crying about some truly horrific thing and instead I started really analyzing what was going on within me, what made it possible to cry, etc. I realized that I was doing something akin to praying/begging before the altar/statue of some god. I was realizing the existence of some godlike entity and asking it for help, showing it how pitiful my life was, asking it to take my pain. It was a very strong feeling. I suspect it's the same for others but, as with so many things, people don't carry this objective/observing of themselves to such extremes.

They say what makes us human is the ability to recognize ourselves, to recognize our existence, and for that matter (partially related) to look in mirrors and realize it's us. (Disproven with elephants and in general I don't assign any particular special trait to humans.) Thing is, though, anyway, we aren't actually that good at recognizing what the heck we're thinking, IMO. I'm often amazed to what degree people can't explain why they feel the way they do about a given thing. For example, "I'm just feeling depressed and I don't know why."

Anyway, I realized what it was necessary to be thinking about in order to be able to cry. The result was I went ten years without crying (only partially true as that probably wasn't the only reason of course). Whenever I thought about possibly doing so, I was stuck with understanding the reality of what would be occuring in my head, that I was so clearly believing in a "god".

And I do want to believe in a god. But my logic crushes my faith. (Except when it absolutely can't. I'm still bothering to live for example.) And so when close to crying, I'd instead think about the absurdity of god, the absurdity of the process it takes to cry and instead usually just laugh. It's funny the endless people calling themselves atheist who logically believe and don't believe all the same things as me who yet can cry up a storm utterly unaware of what the essential element it is that it takes to manage pulling that off at all.

What a ridiculous predicament we are in with the most intelligent occasionally crying up a storm to some unseen all powerful being who will then turn around and say, "Flying sky fairies? How ridiculous!"

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Also it seems generally, that focusing on the absurdity behind emotions can make it hard to still feel emotions. But eventually one can overcome this. I have reached the point where I can understand the absurdity and still go with it at least with crying. Well not so often.

Also of religion I think there is a huge difference between what people logically believe and how they live and the important thing is how one lives. If you're bothering to live at all, then you must not think it's in vain. If you really believe that you shall cease to exist and all memory of your existence shall simply disappear than you are living in vain. To logically face this would mean not bothering. Instead people say that's what they logically believe, yet, they keep getting out of bed most days. Thus they aren't living as atheists. There is no such thing actually.

And boy what an annoying thing pointing this out to atheists considering how I used to make fun of religionists. Very annoying to get the same ridicule in return now. The assumption of stupidity and the hate, etc. But yes, organized religion has been a horror in this world. No doubt of that.

But morality (acting in a fashion that doesn't clearly benefit the acter) is largely based on focusing on the very long term. Quite often well beyond any amount of time the person could still be alive to even potentially benefit from the action. This certainly doesn't mean theists are more moral as, again, what atheists logically believe and what they act like they believe often have nothing in common (same as with everyone else). And so a given atheist can go his whole life logically being atheist yet committing all these "altruistic" (to get technical beyond what I've done so far, real altruism doesn't actually exist, which isn't to take some ghastly Ayn Rand line) acts that can't possibly benefit himself in this life and never really understanding why he's doing so.